Mirette Seireg

The Mamas in Music Podcast is hosted by Claire London in connection with the Mamas in Music non-profit organization. This episode features Mirette Seireg.

Mirette is the president and owner of MPATH Music. She oversees staffing, mentorship programs, operations, outreach, and strategic planning for long-term growth. Proudly, Mpath Music is the first production music library to achieve gender parity among its roster of >150 highly curated composers and full inclusion. Chair, Production Music Association for Diversity, Inclusion & Equality.

You can listen to this podcast episode and other Mamas in Music podcasts on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3zhkgB5zpx7Ozgvr1onQeC

The following is a transcription of the episode.

Mirette Seireg

Claire: First of all, thank you so much for taking the time to do this.

Mirette: Oh, it's my pleasure. Thank you for inviting me. Claire: Yeah, it's really, really cool to talk to somebody sort of in your position. You know, I talk to a lot of moms who are artists and touring moms and musicians. And so, it's great to talk to someone sort of on the business end, who's like, you know, founder, CEO, music library, production music. I thought maybe we just start by, can you just tell everybody what MPATH is and how that sort of came about, maybe to start?

Mirette: Sure.

Claire: Okay.

Mirette: MPATH is a production music company based in Los Angeles. We're the first in the world to achieve gender parity and full inclusion music. And this is from the president and CEO of APM Music, which is our distributor owned by Sony and Universal Publishing Groups. And what we do is, we're a co-publisher with APM Music in North America, and with KPM for the rest of the world. So, you know, production music is- is carved out by territories. So, we have two territories. And so we've got the entire world covered.

Claire: It's amazing. I just love what you guys do. It's really, really cool. And I think it's so important to have these, you know, women focused, you know, organizations that just help. As we know, it's difficult in the music industry. And so it's just, it's really great that you guys are doing that.

Mirette: Well, I love what Mamas in Music is doing. As a mama myself.

Claire: Yeah.

Mirette: No longer, no longer breastfeeding.

Claire: Right, right. Yes, I understand. Like very early stages.

Mirette: Early stages.

Claire: Right, right, right.

Mirette: My baby's full grown. But I understand what mothers- what happens to mothers. And the whole of my career, but my family and to have to, you know

Claire: Yeah. That balance.

Mirette: That balance, and that tugging and the amount of time. So and I love is the support that they all give each other.

Claire: Yeah.

Mirette: And I also love that they're able to keep their career going during motherhood, which is hugely important.

Claire: Totally. And it's so helpful to have just the community, you know, of support.

Mirette: Absolutely, and doing one track per person, you know, among them, and then putting it together-

Claire: Yeah!

Mirette: -with a consistent theme. One track is, is doable.

Claire: Exactly. Exactly. Sometimes we have to do things in like bite size ways to keep it going, you know, but it's like, as long as we're, you know, putting our putting our work out there, you know, one step at a time, right?

Mirette: Exactly. I remember what it was like for me, trying to work and, and, and be a decent mom, at the same time. It was- so I'm thrilled about this.

Claire: Me too.

Mirette: The other thing is, women without children, I mean, all women, yeah, we're talking in- for women- music producers, which all of you are. The latest statistics from the Anaheim study was- Annenberg study was 2.7 or 2.9% women.

Claire: Yeah.

Mirette: Now imagine what happens once you have a child and you sort of don't have the time to put into your career. So, it's a tough industry for women.

Claire: It definitely is. And for sure, definitely when of course you add motherhood into the mix, now you're- just another layer has been added. We know, and this is the, all the conversations that we have constantly and it's just nice to go, "Oh yeah, I'm not alone in this challenge. I can still do the things I'm passionate about. Maybe I have to like shift the way I'm doing things or I have to take a little break here and there", you know, things will have to sort of inevitably change how, maybe how it's getting done on some level. But I'm just inspired by all the, the women who are continually like doing it and making it happen. You know?

Mirette: Oh, yeah.

Claire: And I'm like, yeah, that'd be, "Okay. If they're doing it, I can do it." Like, you know, so, but you need that reminder, and you need those people in your corner.

Mirette: Sure.

Claire: And you see that example. So like this kind of music library that's, you know, women focused, like you see that as like, "Oh, this is an opportunity", you know, and "This is a place I could land."

Mirette: Yeah. And one of the things that we are, we strive to do is to create a safe space for one.

Claire: Yeah.

Mirette: And where collective thought can flourish and collective support.

Claire: Yeah, that's amazing. What do you feel like is, I don't know, maybe the biggest challenge that you've seen in this industry for women and your, in the music production side, like, have you seen any like big challenges that you've noticed? And then also like changes that have maybe happened over the last few years? Is there anything you can speak to around that?

Mirette: I think the biggest challenge is being a woman.

Claire: Just in general. Yeah.

Mirette: And then if you add being a mom, person of color, I mean, it just gets, boom, boom, boom. So for starters, being a woman. And one of the things that I appreciate about the community that we've built all of us because it takes a village. It really does. Nobody does this alone.

Claire: Yeah.

Mirette: Is to find some common issues that impact all of us. And when you have that community and you put things together we can, I learned what the biggest obstacles that other women have. They may not be my obstacles right now.

Claire: Right.

Mirette: But it really helps to break that glass ceiling. So I think one of- we keep talking about numbers.

Claire: Yeah.

Mirette: And numbers are important in terms of numbers of women in the industry. But even for those that are in the industry, we need to take a look at pay parity.

Claire: Yeah.

Mirette: And, you know, when I was a college student back in the seventies, that dates me, I guess. We were calling attention to pay disparity, equal work, equal pay. And the statistics at the time, and this is I think one of the big challenges is to remind people of statistics when we have them. Nobody wants to even study this, which is frustrating.

Claire: Right.

Mirette: But back in college, it was 59 cents to every man's dollar. That was- in fact, it was a folk song.

Claire: Right. Oh my gosh. Isn't that wild?

Mirette: 59 cents to every man's dollar. That is a huge pain point. And how we break through that is something I spend a lot of time strategizing on.

Claire: Interesting. Yeah.

Mirette: So that is a huge challenge. And also, how do you even collect information about that?

Claire: Right.

Mirette: I know that some of my top women composers are just not getting the kind of sinks that our top male composers are getting. And so for me, it's really important to study the statements and see what's going on.

Claire: Why do you think that is? Do you think that it's just like filtered through the years and just hasn't really shifted? Is it an attitude? Is it, what is, why is it sort of staying that way?

Mirette: I think it's, I believe it's unconscious bias.

Claire: Yeah.

Mirette: And when libraries that have, we're fairly new, we're only five years old. So, if you have a library that's been around for 20, 30 years, the ad agencies know them. And this is a people-oriented business.

Claire: Yeah.

Mirette: But if you're, and to somehow say, well, there's a new kid at school.

Claire: Yeah, that's true. It takes a minute.

Mirette: It takes a minute. And one of the things that I brought to the attention to organizers for some of the forums where libraries get together is how clicky and I'm going to be a little blunt here. This is informal.

Claire: No, that's totally yes, absolutely.

Mirette: But when you have an event, you know, with composers, publishers, production music, the men all know each other.

Claire: Yeah.

Mirette: And so when you try and mingle, yeah, they're deep in there, you know, a little, the classic men's room conversation-

Claire: Yeah.

Mirette: -that we are not privy to. So, you know, I always try and break into their little-

Claire: Yeah. As you should.

Mirette: -and introduce myself.

Claire: Yeah.

Mirette: And I often get what I call the look. You know, like, what are you doing here? It's like, I own a, I own a publishing business, music publishing business. And I'm really interested in this conversation. Would you mind if I join you?

Claire: Yeah.

Mirette: But it's- does not-

Claire: But it's not welcoming is what you're saying. No, I get it.

Mirette: No.

Claire: Yeah. And I think all of us have experienced that in one form or another, whatever part of the music or entertainment industry you've, you know, been in. But yeah, yeah, that's really tough.

Mirette: And yet, for those of us who are in this crazy business, we also understand that if we're shy, we're never, the no is guaranteed. So how do we go after the yes? So then that becomes a far more interesting conversation for me. And this is where I say we need community. So if other women have experiences on how they've been able to break through things, that's a really useful thing to share.

Claire: Yeah, absolutely. And in fact, I love the idea of more mentorship opportunities for, for women. And, you know, I know we've talked about that in Mamas in Music and, you know, there are many things on the list of that, like everyone would like to do. But I, I do feel like that's an important piece.

Mirette: Oh, absolutely. And, you know, according to my research, because I do study these things. The universities actually do have fairly equitable admission rates for women music students. However, upon graduation, the, you know, you go from close to 50% women to less than 3% actually working in the field.

Claire: Wow.

Mirette: And I know women who are trying to forge a career while being a barista, driving Lyft and Uber, etc, etc, etc.

Claire: Yes, yes.

Mirette: And, and so I don't see that so much with men. And I'm not exactly sure why. But I think the more we can keep the conversation alive, put our heads together. And, and realize that there are ways- I'm not so interested in incremental parody. I'm interested in systemic, let's just crack this nut open.

Claire: Yeah.

Mirette: And I'm willing to work at it persistently until we can chip at the floodgate. And right now, where I see that happening is, is when I've made a strategic decision this year to work with corporations that actually track diverse suppliers, we supply music. Everybody uses music. Everybody uses music.

Claire: For everything.

Mirette: Yes, for everything. So strategically, I want to break open with those corporations, they do advertisement, they have corporate communications, they do in house productions, they do onboarding videos, all of that. They have events, both live and hybrid, all of that uses music. The difference is, is they track diversity spend.

Claire: Yeah. Mirette: How much are you- How much- What are we spending on diverse suppliers? And women are considered a diverse supplier. I mean, that's crazy to me in the first place, but we'll take, but actually, we are a diverse supplier because we are in a very low minority.

Claire: Yeah. So fascinating. I mean, you know, you do think about like, just everybody uses music and like, where are they pulling all this music from? And are they thinking about who's making it?

Mirette: No, they don't. You don't see it. Not from music producers.

Claire: Right.

Mirette: They're behind the scenes. They're in, you know, their little cubby hole, just like you are right now.

Claire: Right. This is my cubby hole.

Mirette: I'm in my woman cave.

Claire: Yeah, totally.

Mirette: And so they don't see the face behind the music.

Claire: Yeah. And is it like, is that, is that? Well, I mean, is it good to be anonymous in some ways? Is it helpful? Or should it be more like, I don't know, I'm just, I'm posing a question. I'm not sure sort of like thinking about it out loud, but-

Mirette: I think the most important thing is, is are we tracking it?

Claire: Yeah, yeah.

Mirette: Nothing gets changed if you don't measure it.

Claire: Right. Yeah. You're so right. So interesting.

Mirette: There's a, there are a lot of music users or people who license music who say, Oh yeah, I'm all for women. I'm all for, you know- But if you're not measuring it, you don't know.

Claire: Yeah.

Mirette: And so they're, they do what they're used to doing. Same old, same old. So if we keep trying to get our music license through those channels where we may move, yeah, it's not going to happen. I just don't see how it could possibly happen. And so what we have is this wonderful conversation in Hollywood, but, but who's measuring it really on a day to day basis.

Claire: Right.

Mirette: Who's tracking it?

Claire: Who's doing that real work around track?

Mirette: Who's tracking the money?

Claire: Yes. Yeah. Oh boy. It's a lot. But that's good. I mean, even having the conversation and like figuring that out and really nose to the grindstone to get to work on it, you know?

Mirette: Right. I've had conversations with ad agencies and I said, well, you know, do you track this blah, blah, blah? He said, Oh, but there are no women composers.

Claire: Shock. Shock and awe. Yeah.

Mirette: Which is why I have all of our women composers on- I said, this is my website. You've got a list.

Claire: It's incredible. And I know, I mean, I have a lot of friends who are composers and, and some are fighting an uphill battle, you know, right now, but-

Mirette: Absolutely.

Claire: Yeah.

Mirette: Absolutely. Then another challenge is, "Oh, all women companies, they really should be just nonprofits because, you know, they're, they're fighting for women and we can donate to this nonprofit." Baking brownies and selling t-shirts is not going to move the needle. It does not keep women financially secure and independent.

Claire: Yes.

Mirette: In fact, that was the first question I was asked when I decided to start this company. Oh, you're going to have a nonprofit, right? No.

Claire: No, this is a, this is a business.

Mirette: This is a business. Yeah.

Claire: Yeah. Yes. I really agree with that too.

Mirette: And so I think the more we can learn about business, and I am a continuous student, and we need to think like a business.

Claire: Yeah. Yeah. You know, because part of the empowerment of women is financial. It's a huge one.

Mirette: You know, that's how we're, that's how we're kept down.

Claire: Yeah, exactly. No, that's really, really wise.

Mirette: We hear a lot about, you know, women in numbers, you know, oh, you're a parody, but, but the conversation that we had, this was, we're talking 50 years ago, practically 59 cents to every man's dollar has that changed? I don't think so.

Claire: Wow. Yeah. No, I mean, you heard about it with actresses and actors and you know, and all that became a conversation.

Mirette: Athletes.

Claire: Athletes. Right. Totally. It's so interesting too, because if you are someone who makes music, especially behind the scenes and your face isn't out there to, to know what gender you even are, then it really should be even more. I don't, I just, I find it sort of shocking that it's still a thing. You know? Mirette: It is. I mean, what year are we in now?

Claire: Right. 2023.

Mirette: 2023. So anyway, for all of the listeners, I would love to publish an entire album that, you know, actually has lyrics.

Claire: Yes. Yeah.

Mirette: And that really deals with the issue of pay parity.

Claire: I love that. Yeah. That's a great idea. I'm just writing things down. Awesome. So, everything, amazing. This is such a great conversation and an important one. And I'm excited for everyone to hear this. And I want to kind of maybe just end on like a general, as someone who's, you know, running this business and as someone who's is a mother and, you know, is in the business kind of side of things, do you have any advice for, for mothers who are in music, who are trying to do their thing? You know, if there's any wisdom on that level that you could share, that would be awesome to hear too.

Mirette: Ah, well, thanks. I think the most important part is don't try and do it alone. I think we all get into superhero mode when we're moms and take care of yourself. Self-care, find your peeps, find your community and hold on to your voice. In other words, whatever music you love making, continue to do that. Yeah. When you love what you're doing, it shows, and it resonates with everyone. And if you keep at it, everything will fall into place.

Claire: Yeah. I love that advice.

Mirette: Yeah.

Claire: Thank you Mirette. This was so cool.

Mirette: Thank you.

Claire: Yeah, and if there's anything else you want to share to wrap things up, feel free or, and if not, that's fine too.

Mirette: I'm thinking, is there a particular pain point for women that you're aware of?

Claire: Well, I think the biggest thing that has just sort of incidentally done this research, like by being this host of this podcast, you know, I've sort of like picked up a lot of data, you know, from talking to everybody. And I would say the biggest pain point that I'm seeing is that push and pull that you're talking about. And the, you know, time. Time, time, that's what- time, time, you know,

Mirette: We are time compromised.

Claire: It's tough. That's the toughest part.

Mirette: Yeah.

Claire: So, and I think all of us are just acknowledging that, but not really knowing what the answer is for that, except to do your best! You know? I, I, so that's a big pain point.

Mirette: Yeah. Um, I think you can think of- what can you remove from your plate so that you do have the time to do what's most important, whether it's taking care of your child, doing your music, whatever gardening.

Claire: Yeah.

Mirette: Whatever. Um, and I think that's one of the things- and, and find your, find your, your community, really find your community. Um, one of the things I just loved is when Mamas in Music, each set, we can do one track. We don't have to do an entire album.

Claire: 15 songs. Yeah. Right, right.

Mirette: And, and there's no time limit on it. That is the beauty of production music. If you miss one upload period, the next one's right around the corner. Doesn't matter when you finish. So take your time, do a good job.

Claire: And saying no to the things that you really are. I've been trying to get better. I've been sort of generally better at that. I feel like since I had my daughter, who's two, um, and I'm just like, I don't know if I'm better at saying no, because I just listen, priorities are this big, like they're right-

Mirette: They're right here, right here.

Claire: All over the place.

Mirette: Yeah.

Claire: So I think that's a good thing to just, you know, start saying no to the things that you know, are just not, are just going to fill up time that are not to be worth, right? I think.

Mirette: Exactly. Exactly yeah.

Claire: Thank you Mirette, this was perfect.

Mirette: Thank you, Claire.

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